It’s difficult to shoot a film in streets of Indian cities: Gary Kurtz

With his son studying in an Indian ashram and learning yoga, he is no stranger to the Indian culture. American producer, Gary Kurtz is the man behind the legendary films American Graffiti, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Return to Oz, The Dark Crystal in addition to numerous other blockbuster films. Twice nominated for Oscars, he confesses that he is a huge fan of Pather Panchali right from his amateur filmmaking days. On the sidelines of the Mumbai Film Festival, he shares his insight into the changing dynamics of Hollywood and Bollywood’s increasing popularity in the west.

Did you anticipate that Star Wars was going to be such a big hit?
We all were incredibly surprised with the response of the film. The whole purpose was to make Star Wars for hard-core science fiction lovers. After the first week, when we saw the cues outside the theatres continuing and witnessed that the film had broken through to the general audience, we were taken aback. What we didn’t realise back then was probably that since 1955, two generations had not seen a film like this. It had that kind of impact and became a cult film in its own right.

In the 70s films could stay in the theatres for a long time. Nowadays even with a film like Avataar stayed in cinemas for 6 weeks. You have DVDs and movie on demand that has accelerated the whole process. It is always better to watch movie in the cinemas with the audience on big screen.

Fantasy genre is not easy to execute, as it is a pure work of imagination. More films have bombed at the box office than being a hit due to the high cost of production. With success of Star Wars, what is it that works on hindsight?
The first Star Wars film’s budget was 10 million dollars and we cut many corners. In 1976, the average films cost 20 million dollars. We had to incorporate visual effects before computers were in vogue. Everything was recorded on film and it was quite tedious. Nowadays with CGI, some of the shots that had taken weeks, can now be done in days.

Most of the films have not done that great in the science-fiction genre, as the stories are not worth their salt. But there are some wonderful authors out there whose books have great potential of becoming a good screenplay for a film like Robert Heinlein and Isaac Asimov. Most of the rights for their books are tied up in legal hassles.

Good characters can work in any environment. Star Wars is a space fantasy, but due to the universal appeal of the characters, it could have been set during the World War, French Renaissance or even Grecian times. Too often science fiction stories get caught up in the weirdness of the environment that they are trying to create. I think the audience doesn’t really care about the environment as long can they can relive the lives of the characters and be moved by it.

Two Oscar nominations- American Graffiti and Star Wars, how was it to get recognised for your work internationally?
Nomination is more important than winning, as it is narrowing down of what the academy thinks are the best films for that year. And I am honoured to be appreciated for my efforts. Both my nominations came in the 1970s and it was a low-keyed affair and not such a big deal. Nowadays, there are so many bloggers and writers that talk about the Oscar race. When American Graffiti was nominated, we did not know about it until a couple of days had passed. When Star Wars was nominated, it was the 50th anniversary of the Oscars, and the academy rang up and asked me whether they could do a Star Wars number on stage. I sent down all the costumes, robots and it was fun and a memorable night.

Any Indian collaboration that you are currently involved in?
Parts of the film Beijing Bullet are being shot in India, China and Europe. It’s difficult to shoot in streets of Indian cities. If you set up your camera outdoors, people want to know what you are doing and you get surrounded in no time. We had to hide the cameras in vehicles of windows of buildings and shoot surreptitiously. That just worked fine for us.

Do you find any difference between the Hollywood and Bollywood’s mode of functioning?
The basic structural point of view is similar. Big corporate entities want to make big blockbuster films and smaller films some of which are very good get shunted into the art house mode. In the history of Indian films in terms of western sensibilities, there are only few Indian films get that get counted in the top 100 films of all times like Apu trilogy and Mother India…

What are the factors that are hindering Indian films from garnering an international audience?
The Bollywood type films, which are musically oriented have a special kind of interest group and are termed as musicals in the west. Most western audiences find them too long. The American audience doesn’t like to watch a lot of subtitled films whereas in Europe that is not a problem. A lot of Bollywood films are being shown across London, New York, Chicago and places where there is high Indian population. Indian films are becoming a lot more popular now.

In 1950s, the Japanese films were a big festival hit as they had a different view on life. Especially Pather Panchali was a huge hit. I remember watching it as a film student. It was an alien culture but the characters were very recognisable in terms of their emotional responses and so it worked very well internationally. You didn’t have to know anything about the culture to understand the characters in the film and that is the critical thing for any foreign language film to work.

What current crop of Bollywood movies have you have enjoyed?
The film that has really made a difference is Danny Boyle’s Slumdog Millionaire. Not really a Bollywood film, but it has generated a lot of interest about the Indian film industry. The adaptation of Jane Austin’s Pride and Prejudice in Bride and Prejudice was something the western audience could relate to. The Indian filmmakers are getting more imaginative about their story telling that has a global appeal.

You came up with the title of the Empire Strikes Back? How did that happen?
It was a joke really. When we were promoting Star Wars, it was already announced that there would be a sequel and when someone asked me what would be the title, I answered that it would definitely not be called Star Wars 2, it will be something like the Empire Strikes Back as we were thinking in those lines. We couldn’t think of a better one and so the name stayed. We got lucky with that.

What are the few things you look out for before you say yes to a film?
In a film, characters should be interesting enough to follow. For me, characters are the handles that the audience uses to go through the story. I read a lot of scripts that are heavily plotted and are writer-driven rather than character-driven. The characters are not believable and those scripts don’t make good films. Also, the simpler the plot, the better, Billy Wilder also stressed on that.

Did film producing happen by chance or choice?
I went to university in a music scholarship. I had already acted and directed plays in school. Also, since my father was an amateur photographer, I did a lot of darkroom printing since the age of 10.  There was cross-pollination and we had to create music for amateur films. During that time I came across filmmakers and shifted my major to filmmaking in the second year at the university.

I started out as a cameraman and then as an editor. I found in the shoots, that the production area was the weakest one. So I set about being a production supervisor.

What are the dilemmas you have faced as a producer?
I have had some really good films and some which have not done too well, but that’s the way it goes in film business, as you can never predict what the audience is going to like. Sometimes a film just comes out at the wrong time. With Bonnie and Clyde, it was pulled back after three weeks as it was a complete failure. The entire marketing campaign was redone and after a year, it was released and that went on to do very well. Most of the films would just be shelved and not receive that kind of backing. I did Return to Oz with Disney that got caught up in management change. As a result it never got any marketing support.

It happens all the time when during management change, the current ones don’t want to work on promotions as the previous management would get all the credit. It’s a shame, as some of the good films don’t get their due.

How have the dynamics of the industry changed over the years?
Before the Internet, all the film promotion was through TV spots, billboards, magazine articles and trailers shown in movie theatres. Now people know about films while it is being shot, as the actors would tweet about it and blogs would post constant updates. The word about the film is out there in the market much before it comes out. It can be a good thing but also bad as the audience forms the judgement even before seeing the film.

Any regrets about your past projects?
There were 8-9 pet projects that got shelved, a predicament, I guess every producer has to face that. I spent two years working on the movie The Spirit and I could not find any takers. It was 15 years ahead of its time as they felt there was no market for adult animation. Now, you would find ample interest in the film. Later it was made as a live action movie and it was terrible!

What are your future films?
Four films with Chinese partners — two animations and two action movies. We are in the process of casting for Panzer 88, a World War II film with supernatural overtones.

Is China becoming a major player in the international film industry and where does India stand vis-à-vis China?
China faces the same problem that India does. Domestic films do not make much impact internationally. So they are interested in co-productions so that they have little more resonance with the international audience.

Is your best yet to come or do you think you have already achieved it?
I always fall back on Alfred Hitchcock’s statement- the next one is always the potential!