RTI needs to be saved from government: Shailesh Gandhi

Even though he was in the city for a holiday, RTI activist-cum-Central Information Commissioner (CIC) Shailesh Gandhi found time to interact with RTI activists at his home. DNA caught up with the commissioner who has recorded over 9,500 decisions in just two years.

You interacted with activists in the city. What was that experience like?
Each had their own take on how the RTI Act can be made a success. Some said a penalty was the way to move forward, since adherence to RTI will not take place without that. Others felt implementation of section 4 (voluntary disclosure of the information) was the key to success. But one thing that came across clearly across the country is that governance does not work. Activists and citizens have started looking at the public information officers (PIOs) to vent the anger and frustration they feel towards the government.

What are the complications that make implementation of the Act difficult?
The human resources policy of the government is a disaster. All we do is change payscales after the commission's recommendations. Pressure from civil society does not work. Most of the time, work is outsourced to people — that does not work on a long-term basis. They are removed from one task and put on to another, leading to inconsistencies.

There are offices where people are transferred in a matter of 20 days to two months; instead of 200, there are only 20 people working. So when the question of fining PIOs of such departments comes up, as a commissioner even I have to think twice. Let alone RTI, no system of deliverance can work in such a place.

In what ways can civil society and RTI activists contribute?
Let us first talk of the civil society. They are not aware of the basic problems of the governance. Our administration is not structured for deliverance. Even at commissions, there are seven people authorised to work when the requirement is that of 20. We outsource but that is not institutionalisation. Responses that people get from outsourced work are uneven and reflect lack of thought. What we do through RTI is great but governance needs to be focused upon.

You were talking of aggressiveness in RTI activists, and certain pitfalls there. Please comment on that.
We are asking for accountability but the system of deliverance is not there. You can get significant amount of information by being polite to the PIO and appellate authority level. Even when I look back, I realise mistakes I made by calling the RTI a weapon. It is a weapon against whom, my own government? Can I get a better life by just hurting the government? No. Penalty should never be the objective. Getting information should be. But that does not mean you do not ask for penalty.

Dr Suresh Joshi is set to retire and selection of a state information commissioner is in news. You termed your selection procedure non-transparent. Where is it lacking?
Obviously things are not transparent. You need to forecast things for the commission like it is done for other departments. You need to know how many second appeals are expected to come up, minimum number of disposals per commissioner needs to be in place, and so on. There are states which don't get more than 100 appeals; there you have four commissioners. For places where appeals are more than 20,000, you only have seven commissioners handling the situation.